Guilty or Innocent? How Do We Know? Define the Paradox
Mar 15th, 2010 | By Michel Marizco | Category: General News, Organized Crime, Politics
Email
Facebook
Twitter 
Post to Delicious 
Stumble This Post 
Buzz This Post 
Digg This Post
THE BORDER REPORT
I’m going to take this conversation in a different direction this afternoon and I’d like your input. I’m working on a project about murder in Mexico and some of my associates seem to be of the mind that there are innocents who are dying in Mexico’s wars. Collateral killings, if you will. I argue they remain the exception. The vast exception.
I stand behind my premise that if you die in a gunfight in Mexico, the likelihood is that you were targeted, i.e., you were involved. There will be exceptions of course, crossfire incidences, wild shots, the parking attendant at Rodolfo Carrillo’s hit, a waiter killed in Sonoyta. Perhaps the better discussion is to ask why we don’t know who is dying. This delves into the realm of Mexico’s magical realism. There’s an entire genre on the topic. A poet whose names escapes me at the moment once said, “Mexico is a magical country where there are murders and no murderers.”
Why doesn’t the government solve these thousands of murder cases? Why are there hundreds of bodies buried in Juárez every year without identification?
Why aren’t the missing included in crime statistics? Why aren’t those 16 individuals at that party in Juárez exonerated or prosecuted post-humuously? What have we learned about those individuals beyond their ages and that they had families? Did any of them have crime records in either country? This seems to be the source of much of our greatest difficulties in ascertaining the threat level in Mexico: the government’s intrinsic reluctance to exposing the true context of the murders in the country. On March 12, 8 people were killed at a party in Sinaloa. the killers came in with AKs, seeking a specific person. Nobody would talk so they killed eight of them. who died? How were they related to the man they were protecting? Did they deserve to die? Were they traffickers themselves? Or perhaps lawyers and business associates working for a Sinaloan trafficker? They were lined up and summarily executed. Somebody holding a gun set his eyes on a specific set of people and pulled them out. They stood out for some reason.
I find this element of Mexico’s secrecy both infuriating and endlessly compelling.
My belief is that there is no good guy/bad guy situation, not in a linear way. Other than the occasional accidental killing, the distance of time between an individual’s death and their reasons for being in the situation that led to their death seems to be the only division between the determination of a person’s innocence and their guilt, i.e.., you may not have been guilty of anything right now, but I’d put money that you were guilty or involved, however peripherally, in the past. That is the paradox of organized crime.
Your thoughts.
@ michel,
Ouch, Buddy, you are really looking for some conflict today!!!
[Reply]
I agree. I beleive that most of the killings are directly related to some kind of criminal activity or revenge. Ther has been crossfire deaths, but for the most part, it has been one prick killing another prick. And you and I both know that statistics are self serving creations.
[Reply]
Are you also referring to the young women that have “disappeared” in Juarez and other cities in Mexico? Or is this a separate issue?
[Reply]
Michel: Some of the inocent’s that are victims in crossfire’s are do the lack of disipline of tactical training, that is,the police on one side are not aware of the safety precaution’s of law enforcement’s personal to be nedded it from them to be surgical in there confrontation’s at most of event’s that happens.
All the safety rules are not inbeded in there training to be first safe, and also to use the precition need it in a firefigth for example they shoot ramdomly in every direction, the adreanline taking over by fear of death, thus having many casualtiesof inocents bystanders that is lack of advanced training in tactics and the lack of planning special operations.
Second: The other reason organized crime uses distraction executing victims that will take time from there are attenctions from authorities from themselves, remember that the enemy is will train in smoke screens this permmits them, to use a tactic and disperse and hide from the investigation at the time.
Third reason: This is not a tipical criminal investigatition this is more like an insurgency wehre the doers have usualy in this war a poletical statment, similar to a fanatic that his way is rigth,usualy religius, political or simplyto the control of the source of money, whatever there goal is, usualy is the control of the trafiking, alos the control of the local authorities and now is more at strategic level which is the control of politycal and the inteligencie of the departaments and justice sistem.
Fourth reason: Is this executions is to shut up the persons links to this hig level intelectual that manages this events like kiddnapping, cocaine traffiking, money loundaryng and crime of white color “administraters”, as you can corroborate in all prosecutions of Mexicans nationals extradiated to US justice sistems, usualy throght deals made by this presecutors like the case of Osiel Cardenas the leader of the Gulf Cartel and the creator of the “Zetas” or ex-gafes which murdered thousands this was close permanently which restrictle the acces of the Mexican judicial sistem to know which authorities in the Mexican side and the US side which trafficate his weapon’s does this serve justice’s, does this serve’s the investigations on both sides of the border with reciprocity? No ! we never knnow wich US citizen sold those weapons, so they can be prosecuted in Mexico, wich usualy serve power broker’s that serve the ultimated level of organized crime.
Fifth reason: We do the dirty work, we take the casualties more than what you had in Irak, in wars similar in insurgency in Afganisthan, our judicial system is taking the blunt force of the edge of the sword in this batlle, we do your dirty work, catch your agresors and that take our money to create opportunities of rehabilitattion of damage areas in Mexico, because those resources go to Police agencies in the adquitition of the equipment of billion of dollars.
[Reply]
guilty in what? if your a family member of a drug traficker and your killed, its okay cause your a family member and therefore guilty?? Just, because you associate yourself with a certain traficker and do legitimate business with him i.e. sell him cars, houses or whatever, does that make you guilty also, and therefore you can be killed??? I don’t get your premise Michael, and just because you know a trafficker your allowed to be killed because your guilty by association. Pistolers rarely ask questions, when there going for their target, if he seen and whether theres 8 or 10 people they don’t realy care, they’ll just kill them all. I don’t belive your guilty be association, moreover here in Mexico and especially in culiacan, i would argue a big percent of the population know at least 1 trafficker. So if you hanging out with him in a party and your get killed, your guilty also. rofl. And what do you mean by guilty? guilty of what?
[Reply]
Whew! Worn out from trying to read Villa’s statement. Simply… it is a lack of rule of law and investigative reporting.
[Reply]
at least, in the case of the 8 people murdered in Navolato, one of them Pakar, suffered an execution attempt before, and the killers finally finished the job. I think the Mexican authorities are not investigating most of those 1000′s of drug related murders simply because they were overwhelmed by so much killings long time ago, it’s just too much.
[Reply]
Here you go Michel. From the book Trail of feathers by Robert Rivard. Section 18.
18
Murders, But no Murderers
The time has come for Mexico and the United States to trust each other. Simple trust, that is what has been sorely absent in our relationship in the past
— President Vicente Fox, September 6, 2001
Mexico is a magical country where there murders but no murderers.
— Homero Aridjis, Mexican writer and human rights activist
[Reply]
1600+ murders in Juarez and only 37 investigated.
[Reply]
The book is Trail of feathers: the search for Philip True: a reporter’s murder in Mexico. Pagina 310. Probablemente is donde lo viste my friend.
[Reply]
There are a lot of guys murdered in Mexico that didn’t didn’t deserve it, even though they were trafficers. I have been hoping for a long time for peace. It’s senselessness. However, statistically, they are atributing most of this violence to narco trafficers. Juarez has been littered with dead females for years, and it’s probably some cop or group of cops that are doing it. So are they really investigating it? So anything they claim is a statistic, I’m sceptical of. But the FBI has supposedly been involved in the investigations of the dead woman in Juarez, they still have not arrested anyone significant. Mexico is just a mess.
[Reply]
I had to check my calander to see if it was April Fools Day but I think your statement was to prevoke thought and communication. Americans think from an “innocent until proven guily” legal system however Mexican opperates from the opposite. When considering the second, would it not be very easy to assume guilt of a victim in the same way. We do not think that way in US about victims. Why in Mexico?
Yanawana led off strong bringing up the disappeared females in Juarez, and yes the cartel killed some of them. It is unconsciounable to assume they are guilty and deserve to die. As much so, the children riding in the cars with parents and get killed for their father’s deeds are innocent also. O plato o plomo, what about the cop that said no? The store owner that can no longer pay the required bribe. You can go on and on identifying innocent victims in these rediculous act but there is much more to look at.
When you become a true student of this phenomenon. it jumps out at you one day that the true victims are those that all hope has been taking from them. They have no means of protecting their families, no hope of living “the good life.” and a government that absolutely does not care about the poor. When you start looking beyond the murder scene down the block and see the effect it is having on the communty, then you see the real innocent victim. When you look beyond the murder to the pain and dispair the families and friends experience, then you are getting a clue to the damage to the “innocent” that is occuring.
I remember being in Juarez with a group of Juarez businessmen in 2006. They were getting very concerned about a rash of kidnappings that were occuring there. I listened to them rationalize about how 3 business owners within a few blocks of them (Montana Avenue) had been kidnapped for ransom, but more than likely they had to be involved in illegal trade or it would not have happened to them. I think they were wrong, Money is money and it does not matter which pocket it comes out of to a criminal. In fact it would be safer if it came from a square without the ability to retaliate.
Even the street level victim who was involved should have his defense. How many of us really know what dispair and true hopeless realy feels like. To get the opportunity to help your family by earning money selling drugs on a turf battled street may be the “only option” he could find to survive. Is he guilty, hell no. Just another poor victim. But remember, it was a “no humans involved” incident. He is gulty, who cares. One of those gang/cartel members. He did something, so who cares. Sorry, I care!!!
[Reply]
It used to be.different, Women and children were off limits for the most part unless there was a specific reason. There were plans made and evaluated on a per case basis. The positives and negatives were looked at with care. And the assignment was given. Collateral damage, and I don’t mean collateral killings, even damage was not tolerated. No heat. Para nada. It’s true that most are still targeted but the hired help has become unprofessional. Now for the most part they are kids, addicts, or people who enjoy doing it. It is a new generation of business with pride or integrity. Those people are expendable. It’s fashionable to be a sicario o mafioso. The price for someones life is now very cheap. Also when you read the papers, the sicarios that they catch from time time with weapons, are not the sicarios, they are mostly street people who have been assigned to care for things. They are not sicarios. They are more expendable then sicarios. And no one cares if they are arrested, they go to the cereso and they have a place to live, they keep quiet. There is a joke in mexico about the PGR, but it extends to all police forces. There was a contest among many countries. Englands MI-6, US FBI, Russia KGB and Mexico PGR/AFI. The contest was to find a rabbit that was painted pink. Whoever brought the rabbit back first would win. The host of the contest blew the whistle to signal the start of the contest. 30 minutes pass and the PGR/AFI team returned with an very injured and beaten elefant and decared themselves the winner. The host of the contest delared “That is not a rabbit!” The leader of the team replied “ask him.” Even before the host could ask, the elefant blurted out, “I am a rabbit! ………. And I am Pink too! I also agree with you on El jabali Michel, he too is a pink rabbit.
[Reply]
@ T R C
Very well stated amigo, It’s a problem in Mexico, but it’s a problem in the US as well. When you get locked up nobody cares, they say they care or they understand how you feel, but they don’t. They don’t have the capacity to feel it.
Even the street level victim who was involved should have his defense. How many of us really know what dispair and true hopeless realy feels like. To get the opportunity to help your family by earning money selling drugs on a turf battled street may be the “only option” he could find to survive. Is he guilty, hell no. Just another poor victim. But remember, it was a “no humans involved” incident. He is gulty, who cares. One of those gang/cartel members. He did something, so who cares. Sorry, I care!!!
[Reply]
nadien..lol..i heard that joke before, but he was a raton…and the elephant would say..”soy ratoncito soy ratoncito!!!” jajajaj
[Reply]
its just funny this article, because it assumes its okay if you are killed, because you try make some money an illegal way by trafficking. Not every trafficker is a killer. Some, are hard workers, even if its hard for people to believe. Let the killing continue i guess, its only “guilty” people.
[Reply]
MIENTRAS HAIGA CONSUMIDORES Y VENDEDORES ILEGALES DE ARMAS ESTO NO PARA,PARA USA ES UN NEGOCIO REDONDO,PLAN MERIDA SOLO VA A DESATAR MAS VIOLENCIA
[Reply]
Mexicans are the Palistinians of the new world.
No one cares about us. In the USofA most of my friends
believe we deserve this drug war and its unrestrained violence.
If we were Canadian it might be a diffrent story.
[Reply]
But Mexico is not Canada. Canada is a modern, civilized, industrialized democracy and has been a good neighbor to the U.S. Canadians do grow weed for U.S. consumption, but the Canadien government isn’t in bed with the traffickers. Not a good comparison.
Michel, who will be left to ask the hard questions in Mexico? The reporters are dropping like flies. How many of the 60 Mexican reporters murdered since 2000 were “collateral killings?” Are you involved “peripherally” simply because you ask questions about organized crime?
[Reply]
If we look for connections for every person killed in Mexico, chances are they are related or know of some bad hombre. So based on ‘connected’ then all of Mexico is vulnerable. But I am with ROFL, I have had contracts on my family , and they were toddlers , only guilty of being related to some jerk that couldnt be found. Are they connected????
[Reply]
well put TRC, the innocent victims abound
[Reply]
I am from Culiacan and grew up in southcentral LA. You can say I lived in 2 worlds. I look at the situation in mexico and I equate this to the blood and crips explosions in the 90′s when crack hit the sceen. The biggest problem in Mexico is not the Coca or the Mota its the Meth. People are fighting for the drug corners not so much as the routes to the borders. The “Foco” epidemic is what is causing your violence that is why you have street gangs doing the killings and getting massacared. Yes I said it “STREET GANGS” because that is what most of them are. A bunch of missguided kids with few options. The victims keep getting younger and younger like in Los Angeles you had 14 and 15 year olds doing all the killings.
@ ROFL I am just saying. If i have a neighbor or a cousin that is a Cholo… and i decide to hang out with him, chances are that if he is a target of a drive by shooting i am exposing myself to it. No one deseves to die especialy if i havent joined the gang yet. But if you choose to hang out with them you are asking for problems. The difference is that Traffikers arnt looked at as skumm and they have good music, boose, and women so people are more likely to want to hang out with them. You are asking for problems…. You know better but man that banda is rocking…..and the barbacoa smells good…….The pacifico is ice cold…….and those chicks are hot…….
[Reply]
im with you michel…. everyday someone gets popped…mas nunca se sabe porke….the press n police just knows they got picked up at this certain spot, they know the color of the vehicle, how many armed men, type of weaponry, what the individuals were doing before the levanton but never ever y? its ridiculous… luego los familiares lloran ke ellos nada ke ver…. ni madres la voladora no les llega por santos…..except for the occasional innocent bystander….
[Reply]
Reading this post reminded me of this song…it always brings a tear to my eye.
Song:
http://lair2000.net/fairy_Lyrics/songs/Ten_Killer_Fairies.html
Lyrics:
Ten Killer Fairies
She took his hand
Said apologies aren’t necessary
You’ve been a faithful man
Love and Honor are your legacy
Like to fix my hair
And put on my pretty Sunday dress
Cook you breakfast
It’s a shame to leave the house a mess
And the baby’s crying
And I push his face into my breast…and
Sing to him softly
This is for the best
But it’s hard to face the older children
They know enough to understand
They soon will be delivered
Into Jesus’ waiting hands
And the ten killer fairies
Won’t pull us apart
And I will hold you here forever
Here in my sacred heart
And if the neighbors would just stop screaming
And accept this as their fate
The comforts in the dreaming
Of the paradise that waits
So let’s gather up the family
And let’s cover up their eyes
This is only temporary
And no need to say goodbye
And the ten killer fairies
Won’t pull us apart
And I will hold you here forever baby
Here in my sacred heart
Well out here in the courtyard
The reflection of the sun
Off emotionless sunglasses
And the barrel of the gun
And I can hear the people laughing
Down at the carnival
And I wonder if they’ll remember
How we lined against this wall
With dignity like soldiers
And forgiveness like the saints
Giving comfort to our children
With a silence like the martyrs and examples we’ve been made
And the ten killer fairies
Won’t pull us apart
And I will hold you here
Here in my sacred heart
And our father who art in Heaven
Hallowed by thy name
Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done
Today…today
Take my hand now baby
Let’s look out to the sea
To the tuna boats and dolphins
Let’s taste the ocean breeze
And I will not stop weeping
I promised I’d be strong
Just tell me that you love me
Hold me in your arms
And it’s funny I remember
When I was a little girl
How easy came the laughter
At the wonders of the world
And how one day I would marry
With a family of my own
But the time has come now baby
To take my family home
And the ten killer fairies
Won’t pull us apart
And I will hold you here forever darling
Here in my sacred heart
-Jerry Joseph
[Reply]